[Committee] BP, Shell, Exxon

Tue Feb 6 15:20:27 UTC 2007

Interesting debate! Finally we have to face our identities and ideologies 
apart from the technocratic speech. I am very happy, but extremely late for 
a lecture so my contribution will be brief. From a practical point of view 
I support the mainstream. It seems to me that everybody agrees about 
maintaining a discrete behaviour instead of a "fighting" anti-corporate 
one. I think this is appropriate considering the nature of our society, (or 
are we supporting local-micro-industrial nuclear projects? ;-)! ) It would 
not be appropriate for us to go along to extreme positions as a group even 
though every individuality must feel free to throw his (first) stone. I 
think it would be interesting to enhance this debate between us in a future 
meeting. My sensation is that our common passions can help us to discuss 
different views in a constructive way: something that not always happen in 
public political debates.

It is very important as well, and here I completely agree with Nicky, to go 
there and ask them the most inconvenient questions and show them that we 
are actually aware of which are the problems and that we are able to 
distinguish between real actions and just advertisement of (fake)corporate 
responsibility. Sorry for not expressing extensively my thoughts, and maybe 
not very clearly. I am really in a rush. 
Thanks to Marc, Steve and Nicky for the debate see you all later 
Federico

On Feb 6 2007, Nicky Scordellis wrote:

>Don't have time to properly reply but I agree with both Steve and Matc's
>comments.  Esp Steve's comment about not being anti-business.  This is why
>I'm often concerned by direct action groups' behaviour and so on because it
>can give environmentalism a negative image which does not help our case.  
>
>People and Planet are planning a protest at tomorrow's BP lecture which,
>given that BP have led the way (admittedly to a small extent) in greening
>big oil, I'm not sure I agree with.  I plan to observe from the sidelines
>and be prepared to ask questions depending on what BP and P&P each have to
>say.  Anyone else joining me?
>
>N
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: committee-bounces at zerocarbonnow.org
>[mailto:committee-bounces at zerocarbonnow.org] On Behalf Of M. Kaufmann
>Sent: 06 February 2007 14:20
>To: Stephen Stretton
>Cc: committee at zerocarbonnow.org
>Subject: Re: [Committee] BP, Shell, Exxon
>
>
>Hi,
>
> I agree that time is short and we do not have the leisure of working 
> against everyone, which wasn't what I meant anyway. I like your phrase 
> about worthy losers etc, quite fitting. (just for the record, I am pretty 
> anti-corporate and anti-capitalistic [while actually quite freetrade], 
> just saying it here so that people can point out to me when I'm 
> reverse-engineering arguments to fit my view; it's always good to know 
> what you believe in happily and what you hate, but must accept).
>
> On the other hand, there is a great need to be more critical of many 
> organisations beyond Exxon, because most of them won't change out of the 
> goodwill of their heart and they are susceptible to public pressure. 
> Moreover, currently they benefit from "being nicer than the worst: 
> Exxon". And greenwashing won't save the planet either. So I think that as 
> Zero Carbon we should be very suspicious of big claims and real 
> cc/co2-related policies, but not waste our energy on anti-corporate 
> campaigns. Probably by comparing who's doing really well 
> (environmentally). The example that springs to my mind is M&S who might 
> very well be spearheading a proper green campaign as a supermarket. 
> Taking them on for the reason they are a big corporation would be 
> counterproductive and the same applies to other sectors. But we still 
> should expose them if all they are doing is greenwash.
>
>Sorry for the long and unprecise email, always remember I'm a Mathmo,
>
>Marc xx
>
>   On Feb 6 2007, Stephen Stretton wrote:
>
>> Hi, My personal opinion is to differentiate between the oil companies;
>> which are doing well, which aren't. In my opinion this is a battle for 
>> survival and we may need to take a 'divide and rule' attitude to the 
>> corporate world, rather than an anti-corporate one.
>>
>> Re BP it's a complex and many-faced picture. As far as the climate 
>> change message that is being put out, BP have actually been quite 
>> helpful. Their CEO admits that global warming is a very serious risk and 
>> have been pushing to get things done about it. They were first to have 
>> broken ranks with the other oil companies. However, as far as their main 
>> business/money is concerned, obviously its still oil. So we have to be 
>> careful, autonomous and independent; aiming to succeed in our objectives 
>> rather than be worthy losers.
>>
>>On the other hand Exxon are actively supporting many different climate 
>>denying groups.
>>
>>My perception of Shell is somewhere in the middle.
>>
>>I think having one or two enemies is no bad thing.
>>
>> One concern I have that these companies (excluding Exxon) will actually 
>> put quite a lot of investment into renewables, but it won't in any way 
>> keep track with energy demand which is rising even more, since 
>> renewables in general start from such a low base. For them it is 
>> convenient to support technologies which are 'symbolically green' 
>> -'micro' in more ways than one- but quantitatively (at the moment) don't 
>> make a great difference.
>>
>>We need a quantitatively and comprehensively low-carbon approach.
>>
>> So avoid oil like the plague, but we must not have an 'anti-business'
>> image. Any other opinions?
>>
>>Rgds
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>On 05 Feb 2007 22:48:09 +0000, M. Kaufmann <mk472 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Argh, damn Hermes, my message was somehow lost.
>>>
>>> My two points:
>>>
>>> 1. Should we put the message below on the calendar, I think it's 
>>> quite important.
>>>
>>> 2. I've put the Exxon thing on the calendar as an orangy thing, so
>>> should't yet be seen by anyone but us. I felt that it should be quite 
>>> clear that we don't like them if we put it on the calendar
>>>
>>> sorry for all the spamming, just going through an email-session,
>>>
>>> Yours disorganisedly,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> On Feb 5 2007, M. Kaufmann wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> >From: "Careers Service" <CLICK at careers.cam.ac.uk >
>>> >Subject: CLICK - Science - a career in science communication?
>>> >Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 17:30:12 -0000
>>> >
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>>> > 2007:
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> >*********************************************************
>>> >This message sent by RuthSmith at careers.cam.ac.uk
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________ Committee mailing
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