[Committee] Hydrogen Economy event tonight.

[S. J. Stretton]

Hi everyone,

Event tonight looks great! Sadly, I'm not going to be in Cambridge until
later in the week.
As we have (fortunately) seen the slides: maybe one of the committee members
(e.g. Pablo/Stephen/Leszek/Gunnar/Marc) might be interested in going to the
CUEN meeting tonight? It looks really exciting! Let me know if someone can
make it - it would be really appreciated!! (see below)

Sorry for being so rubbish. See you soon.

All the best,
Steve




On 08 Feb 2007 10:46:42 +0000, R. Kavanagh <rk331 at cam.ac.uk> wrote: 
Good morning all,

THE EVENT: This Monday 12th February at 7pm in the Bun Shop CUEN will be
hosting the Sustainable Energy journal club in the Bun Shop. The paper 
under review will be

"Towards a Hydrogen Economy" (see attached)

Although I will be presenting this paper, everyone is invited to read the
paper so that we can participate in a discussion and critique. I have no 
background in H2, and so it will be as much a learning process for me as it
will be for you.

I've also attached a non peer-reviewed article as a contrast to this paper,
which will also be used during the course of the discussion. Read this only 
if you have time!

ZERO CARBON SOCIETY: As you may know the Zero Carbon Society is running an
energy working group at the moment, looking at the challenges and solutions
for a sustainable energy economcy. So if participants from ZCS attend this 
event then perhaps some input from their working group might help direct
this journal club in interesting and productive directions.

CUEN OBJECTIVES: I just wanted to emphasise some of CUENs objectives: * To 
draw together energy related disciplines from around the University and to
promote collaboration. * Help students broaden knowledge base of the
challenges facing a sustainable energy economy * Develop students skills in 
energy dialogues and debates

So it would be great to see you all there.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: committee-bounces at zerocarbonnow.org
[mailto:committee-bounces at zerocarbonnow.org] On Behalf Of Nicky Scordellis
Sent: 12 February 2007 14:34
To: committee at zerocarbonnow.org
Subject: [Committee] FW: Talk on 4CMR and Energy Economics


Marc, thanks for arranging to meet Lianna.  

Everyone else, meet at 7 at the lecture theatre?  Do we have spare cups,
drinks etc from before or do we need to buy stuff?

Also please see Jonathan's email below.  I'm assuming one of you will know
how to connect up the laptop etc?

And can those who have them bring membership cards, signs for showing where
we are etc?

Thanks,
Nicky

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Kohler [mailto:jk235 at hermes.cam.ac.uk] On Behalf Of J. Kohler
Sent: 12 February 2007 09:12
To: Nicky Scordellis
Subject: RE: Talk on 4CMR and Energy Economics


Hi Nicky,

I advance of the talk this evening, here is my ppt presentation.

I'll bring along my laptop and stick as well.

see you around 7.15 to set up,

Jonathan


On Jan 17 2007, Nicky Scordellis wrote:

>Hi Jonathan,
>
>Thanks for this.  Do you think you could also please write a brief
>description (c100 words) of the content of the talk for us to use in 
>publicity?
>
>Nicky
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: J. Kohler [mailto:jk235 at hermes.cam.ac.uk] On Behalf Of J. Kohler
>Sent: 16 January 2007 09:05
>To: Nicky Scordellis
>Cc: 'Steve Stretton'; committee at zerocarbonnow.org
>Subject: RE: Talk on 4CMR and Energy Economics
>
>
>Hi Nicky,
>
>put me down for the 12th Feb. For a title, how about:
>
>New technology: the answer to climate change?
>
>Jonathan
>
>
>On Jan 15 2007, Nicky Scordellis wrote:
>
>>Hi Jonathan,
>>
>> We've now got the McCrum lecture theatre at Corpus (seats 150) booked 
>> for both January 29th and February 12th so please could you let me 
>> know which of these dates you would prefer and a title for your talk 
>> and then we will get on with publicity. The 12th might be preferable 
>> from a point of view of more time for publicity and because it is 
>> further apart from our other talks so is likely to attract a larger 
>> audience.
>>
>>Thanks for agreeing to speak and I look forward to hearing your ideas!
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>
>>Nicky
>>
>>
>>Nicky Scordellis
>>Queens' College, Cambridge
>>Vice President of Cambridge University Zero Carbon Society 07748
>>158878
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Steve Stretton [mailto:sjstretton at googlemail.com]
>>Sent: 09 January 2007 00:56
>>To: 'J. Kohler'
>>Cc: 'Nicky Scordellis'; committee at zerocarbonnow.org
>>Subject: RE: Talk on 4CMR and Energy Economics
>>
>>
>>Hi Jonathan,
>>
>> Thanks for your email. For background, David Mackay's "Sustainable 
>> Energy - Without the Bullshit" was our first major speaker event. 
>> Neil Kirkpatrick gave a talk about Dongtan "Zero Carbon Developments 
>> - What can be achieved in Practice" We've had over 100 people in both 
>> these talks.
>>
>>Please see notes from previous talks:
>>http://www.zerocarbonnow.org/Notes.html
>>Best regards,
>>Steve
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: J. Kohler [mailto:jk235 at hermes.cam.ac.uk] On Behalf Of J. Kohler
>>Sent: 08 January 2007 16:31
>>To: Steve Stretton
>>Cc: Nicky Scordellis; committee at zerocarbonnow.org
>>Subject: Re: Talk on 4CMR and Energy Economics
>>
>>
>>29th Jan/12th Feb would suit. Can you show me some titles that you've 
>>already had? what sort of audience do you expect?
>>
>>Jonathan
>>
>>On Jan 8 2007, Steve Stretton wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Jonathan, Sadly, I'm not sure that I am going to be able to
>>> make
>>> it. I'm based in the Midlands now and Colchester is a long way from 
>>> Birmingham and the travel and conference expenses are a little too 
>>> much, unless I can find a source of funding today...
>>>
>>>Sorry I haven't been able to get back to you concerning your talk. It
>>>would be excellent to hear you speak on climate change mitigation 
>>>generally and about the economics of energy supply. Nicky Scordellis 
>>>and the rest of the committee can help organise a date if you are 
>>>still interested in speaking. (Looking at the calendar a talk earlier 
>>>in the week might be good: e.g. 22nd, 29th Jan; 12th, 19th Feb.) When 
>>>would be convenient?
>>>
>>>Best wishes,
>>>Stephen
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: J. Kohler [mailto:jk235 at hermes.cam.ac.uk] On Behalf Of J.
>>>Kohler
>>>Sent: 08 January 2007 09:33
>>>To: Stephen Stretton
>>>Subject: Re: Policy Event (Conference): Design and Public Policy:
>>>Markets for Congestion and Emissions Trading - Conference Thu 11 Jan - 
>>>Fri 12 Jan
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Stephen,
>>>
>>>I am going and I speak on friday on aviation
>>>
>>>Jonathan
>>>
>>>On Jan 7 2007, Stephen Stretton wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi, Just a quick question: is anyone attending the conference in 
>>>>Colchester on Thursday and Friday? It looks pretty exciting. Last 
>>>>chance for registration is today/tomorrow. Steve
>>>>
>>>> Programme now available Book your place now (Extended till 8 Jan.
>>>> 2007)
>>>>
>>>>http://www.essex.ac.uk/eccc/
>>>>Design and Public Policy: Markets for Congestion and Emissions
>>>>Trading
>>>>
>>>> This two day high profile conference aims to critically examine 
>>>> market oriented solutions to the control and pricing of negative 
>>>> economic externalities from road transport congestion and 
>>>> industrial environmental pollution. Keynote speakers and panellists 
>>>> include leading academics, policy makers and practitioners who have 
>>>> in depth knowledge relating to wider policy issues, hands on 
>>>> trading experience and who have pioneered market designs and guided 
>>>> implementation of trading and control systems for congestion and 
>>>> carbon. This landmark conference moves away from rhetoric to actual 
>>>> design and implementation issues in order to prevent over use and 
>>>> degradation of resources due to missing markets and other 
>>>> institutions. Special forums have also been organized to inform and 
>>>> advise local authorities and firms on joining ETS, carbon 
>>>> offsetting and on obtaining finance for sustainable development and 
>>>> eco-innovations.
>>>>
>>>> Keynote and Plenary Speakers: Prof. Brian Collins (Chief Scientific 
>>>> Advisor DfT), John Barrett (Research Associate, SEI York), Prof. 
>>>> David Brownstone (University of California, USA), Dr. Dallas 
>>>> Burtraw (Resources For The Future, USA), Prof Stephen Glaister 
>>>> (Imperial College), Lorenz Koch (Project Leader, World Business 
>>>> Council for Sustainable Development), Jonathan Kohler (Cambridge 
>>>> University and OMEGA Aerospace and Environment Management Group), 
>>>> Simon Kyte ( Economist, Greater London Authority), Matt Prescott 
>>>> (CarbonLimited), Bruce Pittingale (Head of Low Carbon Programme, UK 
>>>> CEED), Prof. Charles Plott (Caltech, USA), Richard Price (Chief 
>>>> Economist Defra), Dr. Robert Rabinowitz (Director of Climate 
>>>> Exchange (Europe)), Jonathan Selwyn (Executive Director, UK CEED), 
>>>> Richard Starkey (Tyndall Centre), Trevor Sikorski (Senior Analyst 
>>>> and Advisor, Point Carbon), Andrea Young (Deputy Regional Director, 
>>>> Regional Economy, Environment & Partnerships)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Chairs and Panellists on Roundtables : Ian Swingland (Pioneer 
>>>>Environmentalist and Advisor on Commercialization of Biodiversity), 
>>>>James Beale (Director, Renewables East), Hugh van Cutsem 
>>>>(Conservationist),  Tim Lunel ( Director, National Energy 
>>>>Foundation), Steven Joseph (OBE, Transport 2000), Richard Burrett 
>>>>(Director Sustainable Development, Global Markets, ABN-Amro), Nicola 
>>>>Steen (Senior Vice President, CO2e), Richard Gardiner (Director 
>>>>OMEGA Aerospace and Environment Management Group), Hugh Parnell (NW 
>>>>Brown), Richard Frost (Energy Manager, University of Essex), Trevor 
>>>>Platt (Managing Consultant SERCO Integrated Transport), Terence 
>>>>Bendixson (Independent Transport Commission), David Ong (Reader, 
>>>>International and Environmental Law, University of Essex), Lucinda 
>>>>Turner (Policy Manager, TfL), Bob Russell (Lib Dem MP), Jean Lambert 
>>>>(Green Party
>>>>MEP)
>>>>
>>>> The conference is aimed at the following types of specialists, NGOs 
>>>> and government bodies: ·academic, professional and government 
>>>> economists ·local transport and environmental authorities ·regional 
>>>> development agencies ·environmental agencies ·carbon traders 
>>>> ·corporate innovators in climate change ·government planning 
>>>> departments ·policy makers ·specialists in sustainable finance 
>>>> ·students of public policy, transport and environment The 
>>>> conference will provide forums/stalls for: ·finance and insurance 
>>>> advice for sustainable development ·advice to local authorities and 
>>>> firms on joining Emission Trading Scheme ·showcase for successful 
>>>> schemes for a sustainable economy ·publications in the area .... 
>>>> and more Due to limited stall space, to book please complete a 
>>>> registration form which can be found on the sponsors page, or for 
>>>> more information contact Camilla Fox or Julie Peirson on +44 (0) 
>>>> 1206-874876 or Email: cfox @ essex . ac . uk
>>>>
>>>>>On 1/7/07, Robin Smith <robincsco at hotmail.com> wrote: >Steve, are
>>>>>you
>>>>attending this event?
>>>>
>>>>On 1/7/07, Dr. Adrian Wrigley < amtw at linuxchip.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Stretton wrote:
>>>>> > Sorry for the delay in responding to your email. I've been doing 
>>>>> > some
>>>>> work
>>>>> > on a Carbon calculator
>>>>> > (http://www.zerocarbonnow.org/cam/Energy-Log.xls) among other
>>>>> > things.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Here are some specific figures (with a back of envelope cost
>>>>> > breakdown)
>>>>> for
>>>>> > the limestone -> lime process: CaCO3 + Energy -> CaO + CO2, - 
>>>>> > carbon tax excludes CO2 produced in the process and concentrates 
>>>>> > only on the fuel
>>>>> used.
>>>>> > These figures are for a lime plant in Pensylvania, USA (thanks
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > my dad
>>>>> who
>>>>> > consults in this industry):
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting figures.  Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I calculate producing one tonne lime drives off 0.21 tonnes carbon 
>>>>> (as 0.78t CO2). So the carbon tax on the CO2 driven off by the 
>>>>> process should be about the
>>>>>
>>>>> same as from the fuel (0.2438 tonnes/tonne of lime, it appears).
>>>>>
>>>>> As I mentioned, cement and similar industries (import, production) 
>>>>> should pay for CO2 generated, same as fuel-derived CO2. The tax 
>>>>> rate I'd like to see
>>>>>
>>>>> *as a starting point* is $85/tonne CO2 (roughly the $300/tonne C
>>>>> in your right-hand column). So that pushes costs to $237/tonne 
>>>>> including process and fuel. But this excludes labour and capital 
>>>>> cost savings. Also, it excludes substitution of fuel (coal is one 
>>>>> of the highest carbon fuels!). Switch to nuclear (or even 
>>>>> geothermal or solar heat), and things look much more favourable.
>>>>>
>>>>> You describe a 71% cost rise as "quite significant". What is the 
>>>>> effect on the end user? You don't show figures for delivery cost 
>>>>> (significant in this case(?)). As you know, limestone is the 
>>>>> starting point in cement, mortar, plaster production. Reinforced 
>>>>> concrete structures cost the customer about $1100/tonne in the UK 
>>>>> (including labour, materials, transport). So the $121/tonne carbon 
>>>>> additional cost of lime looks to be rather a *low* increase in 
>>>>> cost to the end user (only 11%) (using $300/tC carbon cost). And 
>>>>> this
>>>>> (construction) is a carbon intensive industry. And I haven't 
>>>>> subtracted the tax reductions elsewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it all depends on your perspective.  As a producer, you'd have
>>>>> a
>>>>> big shock to hear of this additional input cost (carbon cost of 
>>>>> $121/tonne). But it will all (roughly) go on the sale price.  
>>>>> Imports pay the carbon tax (on certain, named commodities).  As a 
>>>>> builder, you'll grumble, but save elsewhere.  As a customer, the 
>>>>> effect is moderate. But... the producer is motivated to use a lower 
>>>>> carbon process (new plant? carbon capture? solar heat? biofuel?).  
>>>>> The builder is motivated to switch to (say) timber construction, or 
>>>>> improved design etc. The end customer is offered lower carbon 
>>>>> alternatives at similar prices. Remember, carbon abatement is 
>>>>> *cheap*.  But why bother when pollution is "free"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Once you get to $1100/tC, things start to get really interesting.
>>>>> You've lost Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, Stamp duties, 
>>>>> Value Added Tax *and* Corporation Tax. You've shed huge swathes of 
>>>>> tax inspectors, accountants, avoidance schemes etc. And you've 
>>>>> eliminated VAT carousel fraud and a large chunk of the black 
>>>>> market. The National Insurance Contribution
>>>>>
>>>>> mess would probably have been dumped too.  Losing CGT and CT cuts
>>>>> the cost of capital, extending the time horizon of investors.
>>>>>
>>>>> A good thought experiment.  But impossible for the weak political 
>>>>> leadership we're stuck with at the moment.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Jonathan Köhler

Tyndall Centre and 
4CMR (Cambridge Centre for Climate Change Mitigation Research) Department of
Land Economy, University of Cambridge, 19 Silver Street Cambridge CB3 9EP

jk235 at cam.ac.uk
tel 01223 (7)64871

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